m5eaygeoff wrote:

Cat litter is not made for use as bonsai soil. I have used Akadama for 15 years. I will continue to do so in spite of what you or anyone else says. It does the job it is made to do, nothing you say will change my mind or persuade me to use cat litter.

I'm not asking you to change your mind. If it works for you, continue to use it.
I'm asking you to prove your statement.

Auk wrote:

m5eaygeoff wrote:

I don't have danish clay pellets

So we can safely assume that your statement "I use [...] Akadama. It is much better than cat litter" is based on nothing ?

I think what auk is saying is this: based on the quote fom you, saying that you have not any nekodama, you compare akadama with something you have not tried out yet.

Yep. How can you say that your trees are doing better in Akadama then in something else, if you've never tried that something else?

However... I really do not want to try to convince anyone to use anything else than what is giving them good results.
I've been reading that article, you posted the link: crataegus.com/2013/11/24/life-without-turface/
Trying to find more information about it, I found a response to this subject at : hoosierbonsai.blogspot.nl/2013/12/turfac...active-question.html

While Michael Hagedorn writes that Turface is "one of the worst soil components you could ever use", Jack Wikle writes:
"In 47 years of experience using Turface as a soil mix ingredient [...] I have never had the experience Michael describes, and have always recommended its use without hesitation" (both include photos to prove their statement).

He quotes Walter Pall:
"one's potting mix, watering practices, fertilizing practices, and climate all interact, each one affecting the impact of the others to one degree or another"

That makes sense to me. I have not watered my trees in weeks now - there has been no need. In our wet climate, Akadama falls apart relatively quickly. I'll stick to my non-decomposing clay granules (mixed with other components, of course).

could not put it better myself

As i am still a beginner and ameteur, i am testing different soil ingredients and i have to say the nekodama is getting my privet to thrive. I will test with other ingredients later but for now i will keep on going with the nekodama. I will test the kyodama and the tescos nekodama and hopefully post a review and comparison of both.

I have never heard of nekodama and I never mentioned it ever. Akadama does not break down, I have trees that have not been re potted in 4 years in pure Akadama and it is still fine.
As I said before I have used it for 15 years and there has never been a time when it has caused a problem either from breaking down or any other reason.
I did make the mistake of changing to a different soil many years ago, and I soon had to change back. So I will use what is used by the best growers in the world and that is Akadama.

Auk wrote:

bob wrote:

if it were not to be called cat litter and it was called "dried clay" i am sure many bonsai enthusiasts would go for it

I think we should not call it cat litter - as that may lead to confusion. From now on I'll call it Nekodama

Nekodama. We all have our different ways.

m5eaygeoff wrote:

I have never heard of nekodama and I never mentioned it ever. Akadama does not break down, I have trees that have not been re potted in 4 years in pure Akadama and it is still fine.

Nekodama does not exist, Neko is Cat in Japanese.
Akadama does break down in countries with cold climates.
No, not all 'best growers in the world' use Akadama.
Of course it is possible you are more knowledgeable then Walter Pall and if that's the case, I'll believe you.

"I do NOT at all endorse the usage of akadama for collected conifers and I do NOT endorse the usage of akadama in general in cold climate where trees will freeze. Akadama will decompose when the pot is frozen and it will deteriorate into clay which is very bad in a bonsai pot"

Source: walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.nl/2013/08/akadama-bag.html

"Akadama can break down into a solid mush within 1 or 2 years. This old soil must therefore be washed out of the roots every one to two years. For this reason it is not recommended for species that will not tolerate regular bare-rooting (Pines for instance)"

Source: www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils%20page2.html

"Akadama breaks down over 1 to 2 years, depending on the quality of the akadama, freeze/thaw cycle in your climate and frequency of watering. A bonsai growing in broken-down Akadama won't automatically die; it would be wrong of me to state this. But as with all broken-down, airless clay-soils in bonsai pots, drainage is poor, absorbance of water into dry akadama is poor, and the overall health of the tree as well as its vigour is greatly reduced."

Source: www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/akadama-soil

I have the different cat litter and it looks promising. I m going to mix it with the other tesos cat litter and see how goes.