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Can't help my self noticing! 5 years 6 months ago #21790

  • leatherback
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I don't feel attacked in any way, why should I feel like, it is a matter of fact that some people share my view, that why I wrote the above, simple as that. I would love to prove my point in this matter, but I can't compromise others without giving them up, so take it or leave it, it is what it is. I am already happy to deflect this of the bonsai topic, there I wrote it here.


So two things. You are making a huge point of something you do not feel, but others who you have approached do? Oh, and you write:

The so called bashing and beating come mostly from this people,


Cultural differences, let me think about this one, which culture difference you do refer to? I don't see any difference in cultures here.


The way people learn, teach, give feedback and receive feedback varies a lot from country to country. In my job -international affairs manager at a university- I have noticed that especially the Asian and northwestern European way are very different. In the Netherlands we believe that people should inform themselves, and think. Based on that you can then correct the thinking, or better, students come in situations of doubt with their ideas. In many asian systems front-of-class 'the teacher tells' type of teaching is more common & appreciated.

"If you cannot handle that, do not post trees. Do not go about telling other people off for not being like you."

I did not tell anybody off, as far as I remember, show me that I did, I may not be aware of it.


Read your own posts, which started off by stating that people are not posting enough, should be posting updates more frequently, and now the current thread where you make the statement that people are not being informative enough.

Maybe not everyone is into flooding a forum with onsorted pictures.

Some people, actually like it, but never mind it is your opinion that I flood the forum, I just post what I think some people may like, others don't, guess its up to the individual to decide what they like or not. The same for opinion, some like it some not.


Exactly what I said. Not all people like it. Some would say it would be good to be selective, pick the images that really add something, and reduce the bandwith usage. Some would like to just mention improvements needed on some trees, whereas others prefer to write a do-it-yourself bonsai manual. Each to their own way. So no need for rambling posts on how people are not informative enough.

I personally believe that if the 10th person that day comes in with a juniper cutting / ginseng fig tree from ikea/wallmarkt or umbrella plant being sold as bonsai, and enter a discussion how the world will realize the genius behind the prtoject, there is no need for an explanation. Netiquette requires you to inform yourself of a forum and its contents before posting to a new forum. So if you post a cutting, expect to be told it is not a bonsai. That is nothing to do with rude.

Oh.. and no. Most things are not just opinion, no matter how often people would like to state this. There is a bit more to bonsai than just a shrub in a pretty pot. And yes. I am happy to admit: I do not have a lot of bonsai, besides my dozens of plants in pots. The latter I am not showing unless I have something new to add, technique to show.
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Can't help my self noticing! 5 years 6 months ago #21802

  • eangola
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Indo Andreas I think you make beautiful bonsai. As a research engineer and cellist I've learned many many things about people, and how they approach teaching.

I am going to start talking about the scientific side of things. Going through engineering school (and specially grad-school... where I am still at...) I've had many teachers, all of them very knowledgeable, successful, with hundreds of publications in scientific journals, and extremely theoretical. I also work as an engineer for wind industry, and here they are very different environments. The theoretical people (professors) tend to be very harsh on criticism, and they tend to criticize more than recognize accomplishments. I think the reason is, people adapt to new challenges, and old challenges become second nature to them. Basically, they forget how hard it was when they where "beginners", and a beginner accomplishment, often seems like common sense to them. The most important thing about criticism is to take it, study it, evaluate, and then criticize yourself. The reason you have to do this, is because most of the times, people criticize, but won't solve the problem for you. A lot of times after studying, evaluating and criticizing yourself, you'll say "fuck it, what they said was meaningless". Other times "They were right...", etc...

At work, I get more "good job" than criticism, because it is a totally different culture. As long as you do your job, you make money for the company, you get rewarded.

Now with the artistic side, music. My cello teacher is a very successful cellist, and a perfectionist... He will always, always, find something to criticize, and he would be very harsh, because NOBODY is perfect, and if you are the type of person my cello teacher is, you will always be paying attention to finding the smallest fault. All those little details took me closer to perfection, they made me a better cellist, but that's because I wanted to be better. If I didn't care that much, I would have just tell myself "he is a perfectionist, so whatever". And that's totally fine, it is all about what you want to be or achieve.

If you achieve a tree with amazing branch structure but a skinny trunk, and somebody notices the trunk is too skinny. Chances are, they will focus on the trunk and ignore the branch structure, for which you are very proud of. So you take the criticism, you know your branch structure is amazing, and if you are happy with the trunk, just ignore it... If you want to get your tree closer to perfection, then you fix the trunk problem. But if nobody points out the trunk flaw, you might be blinded by the beautiful branch structure, and maybe wouldn't even think about getting a better trunk!.

I think it is always good to have theoretical people on this forum, regardless of what they have achieved in practice, they will give you their knowledge for free!!!. Their criticism is there for you to take it or ignore it, depending on how much you want to achieve.

If my teachers wouldn't have been as harsh as they were, I would not be sitting where I am right now... and if my cello teacher would have ignored all my flaws, I wouldn't be the cellist I am today. Personally I like the harsh criticism.

Just remind yourself, your trees are great, and you clearly have talent, criticism will always be there, more than rewards.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Indo Andreas
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Can't help my self noticing! 5 years 6 months ago #21811

  • Indo Andreas
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I will reply! Still at work!
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Can't help my self noticing! 5 years 6 months ago #21873

  • Indo Andreas
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Engola, I get your point and thank you for writing it out to us. I love theory, don't get me wrong, criticism and input is more then welcome. I think my point is how this situation came to being the topic, it started with my ming pots, where there was the discussion that was in my view a personal display, that I talk a story (not the trues) this is in my view unnecessary . Wherever I plant my trees into plastic cups or gold bowls, is my pleasure, if people are in doubt and more less saying I am making up stories, then it becomes clear that they don't believe me call me a lier. Beside this, if you look through my replies, I always thanked for any input and taken full notice of anything, positive as also negative replays with positive replies. It became a personal issue after a while, where I seen the challenge.

Another notice is, that even other people in this and also shared this situation in their forum.

That share I followed and begun through private messages to discuss it, the reply I got, as mentioned I don't post, but revels saying, it wasn't nice, to my person the reply was that he seen nothing wrong on what I replied, but the way other form their opinion.

I like to have fun as anybody else, therefore I will continue being here.

To your experiences as musician and your engineering degree, what you explained;

I am a marine engineer my self and a fish breeder beside that the reason why I came to Indonesia was, building state of the art indoor, high intensive fish farms as project manager with 28 years of age, being on the martial artist for over 35 years in several disciplines up to the world championship level in Arnis Eskrima, stick fighting and told myself how to make my own Katanas (swords, we could not get the right ones only light duplicates), learned discipline and listening to my superiors, Sensei, teachers and people from around the world, I have no problem with this, I actually like it.

What I have a problem with is that when people answering out of line or think only their vision is the only right one as you mention before, and that feeling I get sometimes here, is it important, not really.
So before people think I put on another just talk, here are some pictures of my swords and my self teaching a special forces soldier, this is not to show off, rather to prove my point of learning, discipline and friendship.

I given up martial arts do to health problems, I broke my back and could not walk for 8 month, that in itself teaches a lot, the will to walk again!
A word at last. We are not GAI GIN- NI HOA-JIN, in martial art terms (and a bit racist), but experienced "if you are not a Japanese you are an outsider", I hope that clears this up.












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Can't help my self noticing! 5 years 6 months ago #21880

  • Auk
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TLDR; back on topic please.
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