leatherback wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

I spent some time last summer doing measurements on natural trees and bonsai. There is a Believe that bonsai proportions is natural. My investigations show the opposite. That most bonsai have far too thick trunk compared to the height.

I think you misunderstand the idea behind the sizes.
www.growingbonsai.net/how-big-should-my-bonsai-be/

Yes, I have seen that resource before. It states that a bonsai is aiming at an old natural tree and that there are no general rules. Despite that continuing with a general rule, quite funny.

Yes, I am aiming at a miniature old natural tree. I have a lot of them around me naturally. But I can assure you. No matter how much I search in my surroundings I cannot find any example 1 to 12 ratio or smaller. Actually there are a 250 year old oak in my garden.That one is above 1:20.for natural reasons not really easy to know exactly

That is why I say that I am aiming a miniature natural tree, not a bonsai. But, yes you are right the trunk is too small. But even in a small container the trunk get thicker every year, just not as much.

BR
Magnus

It is all about perspective


But please. Have your own opinion, and hold on to your views.It is not my trees that you are holding back.

Tropfrog wrote:

Yes, I am aiming at a miniature old natural tree.
That is why I say that I am aiming a miniature natural tree, not a bonsai.

So you're growing miniature trees, that look like old natural trees, that are in bonsai pots, but that are not bonsai.

Looks like you're afraid what you grow will not be considered bonsai, so you make up your own definitions, and there will be no way you can fail, as it will all be according to your own rules.

I do try to grow bonsai. I do fail. All that means is that I have to try better.

leatherback wrote:

It is all about perspective


But please. Have your own opinion, and hold on to your views.It is not my trees that you are holding back.

I see your point on the picture.

Well, holding back trees isnt it what the bonsai hobby is about?

I am aming a natural tree. Which would be fairly evaluated from the same perspective, not different perspectives.

Br
Magnus

Auk wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

Yes, I am aiming at a miniature old natural tree.
That is why I say that I am aiming a miniature natural tree, not a bonsai.

So you're growing miniature trees, that look like old natural trees, that are in bonsai pots, but that are not bonsai.

Looks like you're afraid what you grow will not be considered bonsai, so you make up your own definitions, and there will be no way you can fail, as it will all be according to your own rules.

I do try to grow bonsai. I do fail. All that means is that I have to try better.

Just as lb, you did missunderstand my post about negative attitude. I see your point, but didnt we agree that you should not post in this thread?

Br
Magnus

Tropfrog wrote:

Just as lb, you did missunderstand my post about negative attitude. I see your point, but didnt we agree that you should not post in this thread?

the problem is you are on a bonsai forum asking for advice. when the advice is given of course they are going to be bonsai techniques because that what people on here do. everything you are wanting to do are indeed bonsai techniques so personally you are in fact doing bonsai just with a different vision in your tree which is 100% ok. everyone has a different view of what they want in their own trees. some want a big fat trunk that makes the tree look of extensive age or some want a small tree with a thinner trunk than most people am for but its all preference. i dont see any of the responses here as negative i see them as what you asked for in the OP, their own view/ vision in what they see in your tree.

crent89 wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

Just as lb, you did missunderstand my post about negative attitude. I see your point, but didnt we agree that you should not post in this thread?

the problem is you are on a bonsai forum asking for advice. when the advice is given of course they are going to be bonsai techniques because that what people on here do. everything you are wanting to do are indeed bonsai techniques so personally you are in fact doing bonsai just with a different vision in your tree which is 100% ok. everyone has a different view of what they want in their own trees. some want a big fat trunk that makes the tree look of extensive age or some want a small tree with a thinner trunk than most people am for but its all preference. i dont see any of the responses here as negative i see them as what you asked for in the OP, their own view/ vision in what they see in your tree.

I agree fullt that it has been no negative vibes in this thread. If you read earlier in this thread. Auk told me that he shouldnt post because he didnt have anything to say that are not negative. So we agreed on it. And that was it.

I agree totally that People have different taste and that is fine.

The advises I get here is to a big extent very useful and I am happy about the discussion. However I feel that there are a little bit too much comment on my approach to this tree, but I can live with that. Even thou, I dont see the controverse as serious as some posts May suggest.

To be even more clear. This tree is not growing in a bonsai pot, hece cannot be called a bonsai. Can we agree on that and go back to a fruitful discussion about the tree?

However happy with all the feedback. There are only one question in the initial post. What would you do? Lets get back to that one.

Br
Magnus

There is absolutely NO negative attitude when experienced members (some awarded ones, as is the LB case) criticise your trees or give opinions contrary than yours. Most of the time these comments are more helpful than just praising a bad work or saying "well done" just to be polite.
That is a good way to learn faster.
If you keep saying "you misunderstood my post" perhaps it is because the post was not clear enough in the first place?

Time for you to flip through the thread and look who you are telling off. You are digging yourself a big mess if you continue your circles.

Also, unless you agreed with Auk that he will not post in this thread i have no idea why you think you agreed on that.

Finally, it is a forum. People respond. Deal with it. I hope you realize the negativity you het is not because of the trees you posy but because of a bad attitude.

Clicio wrote:

There is absolutely NO negative attitude when experienced members (some awarded ones, as is the LB case) criticise your trees or give opinions contrary than yours. Most of the time these comments are more helpful than just praising a bad work or saying "well done" just to be polite.
That is a good way to learn faster.
If you keep saying "you misunderstood my post" perhaps it is because the post was not clear enough in the first place?

What can I say other than that you are totally right. There are no negative posts in this thread. And I really appreciate the discussion about the tree. I dont mind experienced persons giving critique at all, on the contrary i like it. I think my post on my local club vs bonsai empire should show just that.

It has never been my intention to deliver a message that I think someone missunderstanding my post. And really I dont get where that impression came from. If you want to clarify that statement, please use pm function. I am allways interested on feedback about my person and how I can improove in comunication. But want to keep this thread about the tree.

There are as many approaches to the same tree as there are enthusiasts working with Them.

So from the bottom of my heart. I am happy for all feedback on the tree. Now can we go back to the initial question: what would you do? Before this thread gets totally out of track.

Br
Magnus