m5eaygeoff wrote:

Akadama (赤玉土 Akadamatsuchi?, red ball earth) is a naturally occurring, granular clay-like mineral. [..]It is surface mined, immediately sifted and bagged
This is from wikipedea

"There are also baked variations, called yaki akadama tsuchi, that have been fire hardened to enhance these qualities"
Masakuni Kawasumi II, Techniques of Bonsai, a guide to starting, raising and shaping bonsai.


From: forum.dwerggarnalen.nl/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6888

"Akadama, as the common opinion in the Internet is, is burnt clay – and one can even read that there is a simple and double baked Akadama. [...] one speaks of drying when temperatures are lower than around 900°C, and one speaks of baking or burning when temperature is higher than 900°C.

In the Akadama procuction, the clay first is cleaned, kibbled and sieved in three different grains sizes: 1. small grain (1-5mm), 2. middle grain (5-10mm ), 3. large grain (10-25mm ). Later, it is dried at temperatures around 200°C.

The so-called Yaki Akadama in contrast really is baked at higher temperatures (1200°C), which gives the grains higher form stability.

Source: Shrimpsider

alainleon1983 wrote:

Thank you both, Geoff and Auk,

Now I´m in doubt again... You´ll see, they had a legend on its wrapping that read: 300ºC treated Akadama or something like that. I mean... I think it was fired or submitted to a termic procedure to hardened the grains and get rid of organic matter and pathogen organisms.

Alain

"one speaks of drying when temperatures are lower than around 900°C, and one speaks of baking or burning when temperature is higher than 900°C."

Source: Shrimpforum

Well, then I must say that the one I saw is dried Akadama. Treating temps were of 300 degrees.

If you're looking for Akadama soil on a budget I highly recommend this stuff:



It's pretty much like Akadama but takes longer to break up apparently.

One of my trees is growing in 90% this and 10% of garden center 'Bonsai Compost" for some time now and it's doing great!

Well thanks spuker1,

Anyways and even if it seems similar to Akadama I must say that I have some reservations about it.

You´ll see, Colin Lewis, for instance, says: "Cat litter is a similar product to turface, but may contain contaminants, so I avoid it."

There are also its defenders. Harry Harrington states: "I have experience of using cat litter on my own trees and experienced of a wide range of alternatives used by clients on their bonsai. I have been using Diatomaceous Earth or 'Diatomite' (Catlitter) on my trees for around a decade now". He seems to use one particular kind of cat litter for some reason.

So, I don´t know... Possibly it´s feasible using cat litter, but I do know for sure that nobody seems to complain about Akadama, that is besides its price, of course. So, I suppose that at some point I might make the compromise of using cat litter, but right now I think I will pass since I don´t have yet that many trees and I can afford some bags of Akadama.

Nevertheless, perhaps some other more knowledgeable member of this forum would share his 2 cents about this question and shed some light in this matter.

However I really appreciate your suggestion. Thank you very much spuker1.

I have my some 60 trees in cat litter and/or lava.
I used akadama one season, and it turned mud within one winter, after which I had to replace the soil in all plants that I repotted the year before. Won't be using acadama again.

Well, you will never persuade me that cat litter is any good for MY trees! Akadama does not break down as quick as some say. I have almost all of my trees in it and I do not re pot any more often than any of the people I know who use other substrates. If it used by the best Japanese masters then it is good enough for me. The cost is the only thing against it.
I used Akadama for about 5 years until I was persuaded to change. I came close to losing several trees withing a year, and had to re pot them all. It took several years to recover. I keep all of my trees under cover but open during the winter. this way I am able to control the watering.
Geoff.

alainleon1983 wrote:

but I do know for sure that nobody seems to complain about Akadama

I would't be so sure.

Walter Pall writes how unhappy he is with the fact that one of his trees is on a bag of Akadama,
See: walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.nl/2013/08/akadama-bag.html

He is referring to collected conifers. That is his opinion, and it will not affecct my use of the best material for my trees.
It is all a matter of opinion, and what suits one may not suit others. I have never had any problem with it ever.

m5eaygeoff wrote:

He is referring to collected conifers.

No. About collected conifers he writes that he does not endorse it at all.
He does not endorse it IN GENERAL in cold climates.

That is his opinion

It's Walter Pall, I certainly would say he knows what he's talking about.

and it will not affecct my use of the best material for my trees.

It may be the best material for your trees, but it may not be the best for others.
We live in different climates. You mention that bonsai masters in Japan use Akadama - that may very well be because they live in Japan. Like Leatherback, I live in the Netherlands, where it rains very often and where it freezes in winter. My akadama, just like Leatherback's, will have turned into mud after one or maybe two winters. For my oldest tree, that is eventually going to be a problem - I do not want to repot it every year.

It is all a matter of opinion, and what suits one may not suit others. I have never had any problem with it ever.

It is not a matter of opinion - it's a matter of circumstances. For a soil mixture you will need to take your local circumstances into consideration - temperatures, amount of rain, sunshine, wind and the way you care for your trees need to be taken into account.

I do not want to start a discussion about this though, nor do I want to convince you to use something else - if Akadama works great for you, stick to it.

I've seen enough discussions about this topic already on the dutch forum - I think starting new discussions about it is now even forbidden

One of the most interesting discussions was when someone posted an article about baked clay granules he found in a shop. He described the colour, properties, and mentioned the favorable price.

One of the reactions was from someone who really wanted to try out this substrate - untill I asked if it concerned cat litter.
It was, and that made him radically change his mind. The specifications of the clay granules did not change a bit, it was just the name....

I think it's not an opinion but a prejudice. It's what cat litter is used for normally that make people frown upon it, not it's properties. They are however just clay granules and baked (not dried, like akadama, and harder).

You do need to select the proper type (you wouldn't want to use the scented type - not sure if that would harm though - and certainly not type consisting of wood pellets ).

The only reason I am not using it yet, is that there is no shop in my neighbourhood that sells the proper type - and I have been too lazy to go to a village nearby where they do have it. Next year, when it's time to repot, I will certainly go and buy a bag.

This will be my only reaction, as said, I do not want to start a discussion - I 've seen enough of that already.