Hi everyone.
I have recently picked up an interest in bonsai and I am studying both the information on the internet and a couple of books I have bought.

Now I feel ready to start handling a plant, but... which plant?

Pines are obviously very tempting, but I get the feeling they're not ideal as a first tree.
Maybe a larch is a less challenging conifer?
A maple would is also attracting me, and they're not difficult to find.
Box I can find anywhere, but I'm not sure if it's a good choice for a newbie
Oak and honrbeam are easy to find in the wild, and I know where I can get one with permission of the land owner.

Then of course the other question: do I get a small tree from a nursery and I grow it from a small sapling os shall I start with something already partially formed?
Ina near nursery they have some interesting olive and oak as a started, but still crude bonsai, but I like the idea of growing it from a tiny plant.

So... yeah, I'm a bit confused on how to get started.

Obviously, as you can see from my selection, I'm looking at outside bonsai.

Thanks in advance for any help.

zante wrote:

Pines are obviously very tempting, but I get the feeling they're not ideal as a first tree.
Maybe a larch is a less challenging conifer?
A maple would is also attracting me, and they're not difficult to find.

Agreed that a pine is not ideal for a beginner. I would probably not choose a larch either. If you want a conifer, I'd choose a juniper.

Box I can find anywhere, but I'm not sure if it's a good choice for a newbie
Oak and honrbeam are easy to find in the wild, and I know where I can get one with permission of the land owner.

Box would be a good choice. Oak is possible, not too hard to care for, but harder to grow a good bonsai from. From your list, I'd certainly pick hornbeam.

Then of course the other question: do I get a small tree from a nursery and I grow it from a small sapling

If you want to grow from something small, you need to understand that it will be a long term plan and you will not have much to work with the coming couple of years.

Obviously, as you can see from my selection, I'm looking at outside bonsai.

Which is definately the best thing to do.

Auk wrote:

zante wrote:

Pines are obviously very tempting, but I get the feeling they're not ideal as a first tree.
Maybe a larch is a less challenging conifer?
A maple would is also attracting me, and they're not difficult to find.

Agreed that a pine is not ideal for a beginner. I would probably not choose a larch either. If you want a conifer, I'd choose a juniper.

Hmm... not my first thought, but could be interesting

Auk wrote:

Box I can find anywhere, but I'm not sure if it's a good choice for a newbie
Oak and honrbeam are easy to find in the wild, and I know where I can get one with permission of the land owner.

Box would be a good choice. Oak is possible, not too hard to care for, but harder to grow a good bonsai from. From your list, I'd certainly pick hornbeam.

Just out of curiosity, why hornbeam over oak?

Auk wrote:

Then of course the other question: do I get a small tree from a nursery and I grow it from a small sapling

If you want to grow from something small, you need to understand that it will be a long term plan and you will not have much to work with the coming couple of years.

From my understanding it's a matter of years in any case, as in you never "finish" a bonsai.

I am considering at this point getting something already pre-formed, there are plenty of olive, Chinese elm and oak crude bonsai to choose from in the nursery nearby, and maybe a couple of small saplings, maybe a maple and a larch to grow from small. In the time it takes for them to start shaping, should be enough to start getting my skills started on the tree purchased as a crude bonsai.

zante wrote:

I am considering at this point getting something already pre-formed, there are plenty of olive, Chinese elm and oak crude bonsai to choose from in the nursery nearby, and maybe a couple of small saplings, maybe a maple and a larch to grow from small. In the time it takes for them to start shaping, should be enough to start getting my skills started on the tree purchased as a crude bonsai.

Why ask for advice to ignore it as you have already made your plans?

If you are wanting to get something that you can get practice rounds on.. Go for hedging material from a nursery. They are afforable, readily available in winter and reasonably sized. Get 4 or 5 1m tall plants and work on those. It will give you lots of wiring and styling practice. In spring you get to repot them. ANd over summer you learn your watering. If you mess up, you have not lost a lot.

An example for a yew: www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/9904-shokkan-yew (THese are a bit iffy on their roots though!)

I would actually alos consider Larch. They are fairly easy, take stying well as long as you do not remove buds (As they do not backbud) and do not work the roots if they have foliage.

Pine and oaks are very tricky with repotting, so indeed. Less suited.

I think I would not recommend going with the preformed stuff, if you mean mallsai kind of material. Better get cheaper nursery plants that for the first years get your skills up and then once you are confident, splurge 50+ euro on a good bonsai starter.

www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...e-beginnings?start=0
www.growingbonsai.net/why-is-my-tree-not-a-bonsai/

Auk wrote:

zante wrote:

I am considering at this point getting something already pre-formed, there are plenty of olive, Chinese elm and oak crude bonsai to choose from in the nursery nearby, and maybe a couple of small saplings, maybe a maple and a larch to grow from small. In the time it takes for them to start shaping, should be enough to start getting my skills started on the tree purchased as a crude bonsai.

Why ask for advice to ignore it as you have already made your plans?

I am not ignoring it, but the selection of started bonsai that I have available is quite limited.
The ones I mentioned are plenty, but in number, not in variety. In that nursery they have mainly indoor bonsai, and a selection of those three kinds for outdoors (plus a few VERY expensive ones I'm not going to touch). There isn't much in terms of bonsai trade where I live. I suppose I could look online, but I was under the impression that buying without seeing in person was not advisable.

As for selecting a larch, I hear what you say, that it might not be a good idea to start with that, but I wouldn't be starting with it. I would be starting with whatever i choose from the nursery, and in the two or three years it takes to grow into something ready to shape I assume I'd have enough experience to handle it.
If you think that would still be too early, please say so, I will reconsider and pick up a juniper instead.

Do you have any objection to my picking up a small maple to bring up as bonsai?
Not trying to be snarky, I am asking the question straight-up, because I mentioned it in my original post, but you haven't commented on it, so I'm not sure if my impression that it's a decent beginner tree is correct or not.

leatherback wrote:

If you are wanting to get something that you can get practice rounds on.. Go for hedging material from a nursery. They are afforable, readily available in winter and reasonably sized. Get 4 or 5 1m tall plants and work on those. It will give you lots of wiring and styling practice. In spring you get to repot them. ANd over summer you learn your watering. If you mess up, you have not lost a lot.

I can get 30 to 40cm box, is that too small?

leatherback wrote:

An example for a yew: www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/9904-shokkan-yew (THese are a bit iffy on their roots though!)

I would actually alos consider Larch. They are fairly easy, take stying well as long as you do not remove buds (As they do not backbud) and do not work the roots if they have foliage.

Ok, thanks, but maybe I'll pick up a juniper instead.
I get the feeling it's going to be more tolerant of my mistakes.

leatherback wrote:

Pine and oaks are very tricky with repotting, so indeed. Less suited.

Pity, I liked the idea of oak, but I get it.

leatherback wrote:

I think I would not recommend going with the preformed stuff, if you mean mallsai kind of material. Better get cheaper nursery plants that for the first years get your skills up and then once you are confident, splurge 50+ euro on a good bonsai starter.

Ok, but by "cheaper nursery plants" you mean hedging stuff, as you said at the top?
Not 1 or 2 yr old trees that shouldn't be touched for a couple of years, right?

leatherback wrote:

www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...e-beginnings?start=0
www.growingbonsai.net/why-is-my-tree-not-a-bonsai/

Cheers, I'll have a look.

as an example, I posted one of my larch, one of my first trees
www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...-larch-from-seedling

As for the maple.. In general I would say: Go for it, if you can get something affordable. Just get one or two deciduous and one or two confierous and learn from those. Do not spend too much, as you get these to get a feel for things. THen in a year or two, once you know what comes into this whole thing, you can decide whether you want to spend more.

Really, avoid the mallsai trap where possible. That being said.. www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...ught-an-ulmus-bonsai

leatherback wrote:

Really, avoid the mallsai trap where possible.

Mallsai? What's that?

zante wrote:

leatherback wrote:

Really, avoid the mallsai trap where possible.

Mallsai? What's that?

Ah... I see. I hadn't been to your links yet