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One year, two prunes... what's next?

  • solobo
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Replied by solobo on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37510
Well, surprisingly, these replies were actually helpful: by searching things like "not a real bonsai" and "just a houseplant" I learned that:
1) It's pretty common for noobs such as myself to get interested in bonsai and ask for advice working on something cheap like a 'ginseng' ficus
2) It's also pretty common for the people these noobs ask for help to tell them they shouldn't even try because these are 'houseplants', not real bonsai, and thus not worthy of advice
3) This is actually false; 'ginseng' ficus can end up looking really nice.

I found a blogger that has lots of great examples of working with cheap plants even uglier than mine and making them look pretty awesome. I would have loved it it someone had given me some direction for improving my specific tree, but I'll do my best muddling along copying him, and I expect that this tree will someday look good.
Links to a couple good articles:
This was a “ginseng” ficus, now please stop saying they’re not good bonsai subjects
Dare I call it a ginseng ficus? What does that mean anyway?
What shall you do with a ginseng ficus?
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  • leatherback
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Replied by leatherback on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37517
Great. Go ahead and show everyone wrong. Unleaa you are in the tropics it will take you decades to get to anything reasonable.

All trees can be used to create a bonsai. Some will give you a result in a reasonable amount of time, say 20 years. Thoae are more suitable then others.

I think the general gist is, it is not a bonsai, and making it one is not something you judt do. Proof is in the amoiunt of good bonsai grown out of mallsai, compared to for instance, beech.
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Replied by leatherback on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37521
Some more reading, if you are interested in my thoughts on the subject: www.growingbonsai.net/growing-bonsai-you...ry-stock-for-bonsai/
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  • Auk
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Replied by Auk on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37524

solobo wrote: This is actually false; 'ginseng' ficus can end up looking really nice.


This is certainly true. The species is often used and can be trained into a great bonsai.
However, this is never going to work for your plant. The problem are the monstrous, dis-proportionate roots, that are actually grown this way to simulate a trunk - but will never look convincing. The other problem is the graft.

But hey, you've done your research, so good luck with your houseplant (I would not even cal it a mallsai; mallsai at least have had some sort of training).

Yeah, I know that article. Encountered it multiple times. What you forget is that:
- This is done by an expert
- It took VERY long to do
- It took advanced techniques

I would not waste my time on it.
Last Edit:6 years 2 months ago by Auk
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Auk.

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Replied by Auk on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37525

Auk wrote:
- This is done by an expert
- It took VERY long to do
- It took advanced techniques


- He is living in Florida and can grow it outdoors...
Last Edit:6 years 2 months ago by Auk
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Auk.

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  • solobo
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Replied by solobo on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37532
Thanks for the replies (and the article on selecting plants - that will be useful for selecting my next plant). I'm not interested in proving anyone wrong, but I am willing to put in the time for this tree, (I inherited it from my grandma when she died 1.5 years ago, so it would be very satisfying to make something beautiful out of it, even if it does take 20 years).

Based on the articles I found, it looks like my next step should be to hack a lot of the larger roots off and bury the "trunk" (old roots?) deeper in the soil, and to do some surgery on the stub in the middle (I feel like I've seen people peel back the bark, cut out the wood inside, and put the bark back to hide the scar... does anyone know the term for that or know of a good article on how to do it?

Thanks!
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Replied by Auk on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37536

solobo wrote: (I inherited it from my grandma when she died 1.5 years ago, so it would be very satisfying to make something beautiful out of it, even if it does take 20 years).


All the more important to keep it alive, so I'm going to repeat the advise:
Don't try to make a bonsai out of this. Keep it as a normal houseplant. Give it proper care, make it healthy, let it grow. Prune only shoots that get too long.
If you get enough growth, the ugly stump will be hidden behind the foliage.

Applying the bonsai techniques you are referring to will most likely kill the plant.

If you are really into bonsai, find something else.
Last Edit:6 years 2 months ago by Auk
Last edit: 6 years 2 months ago by Auk.
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  • 333Adriaan333
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Replied by 333Adriaan333 on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37548
I agree with Auk keep it as house plant you dont whant to kill it and doing what you want to do is only done by experienced people that have killed a lot of trees trying to do that and after a lot of error
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  • leatherback
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Replied by leatherback on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37552

solobo wrote: Thanks for the replies (and the article on selecting plants - that will be useful for selecting my next plant). I'm not interested in proving anyone wrong, but I am willing to put in the time for this tree, (I inherited it from my grandma when she died 1.5 years ago, so it would be very satisfying to make something beautiful out of it, even if it does take 20 years).

OK, that explains partially why you want to make something out of this. This is more than just a plant you got. It ha a story.

solobo wrote: Based on the articles I found, it looks like my next step should be to hack a lot of the larger roots off and bury the "trunk" (old roots?) deeper in the soil, and to do some surgery on the stub in the middle (I feel like I've seen people peel back the bark, cut out the wood inside, and put the bark back to hide the scar... does anyone know the term for that or know of a good article on how to do it?


And then yeah, you will be left with a dead tree.
Trimming the roots is something done when you have the main tree as you want it. It is more delicate than hacking of. Think of it more as a surgical operation where you decide for each root at which point you can trim it without killing the root. If you want to really make something of it..

- Decide whether you want to try and get the original foliage back on this tree. The rootstock and the foliage are most often different species. The rootstock has faster growing material, but also with larger leaves. That will develop the plant faster. However, the producers try to avoid getting the original foliae, so you might not get any backbudding if you cut the original foliage off.
- Put it in a larger container. Give the roots a bit of growing room. If you do, consider arranging the roots. This is ideally done when your plant is very healthy and strong. Mid-summer after spending a month or two outside gaining strength is normally a good time. Here the trick is to do as little damage to the roots as possible.
Then just let is grow long branches

The stump is the grafting site. The technique you refer to is the Van Meer techniek. I have not seen any real examples of it working well. I have not heard Hans about it in the last years. I think it does not work universally. I would rather rely on the plants ability to close the wound through growth. So by all means if you have a stum, clean it up (Lots of videos online on cleaning up chop marks). But then let it grow unrestrained until you have 2 metre branches. That will create a better natural transition.

Make sure you do not have bunches of branches. Reduce all branching spots so that only 2 branches remain: THe main leader, and a side-branch. Anything more and you set yourself up for ugly transitions.

Key now is setting the basics and getting massive growth. If you are indeed in Florida, you may see air roots forming. Drape these along the trunk; Over time they will fuse and form a more continuus plant.
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Replied by leatherback on topic One year, two prunes... what's next?

Posted 6 years 2 months ago #37559
By the way, yes. I do have experience growing ficus, and I know from my own experience what can, and what cannot be achieved. So please do not confuse my negativity re. these ficus ginseng plants as unawareness.. :)

www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...cus-project?start=10
www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/progressions/...onsai?start=10#37556
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