bob wrote: I have read and been told that there is a gene or something in the seed like a chmical

Look at what you write. 'A gene or something', 'a chemical'.
This shows you don't really have a clue what you are saying - and I think understanding what you're talking about is quite fundamental if you want to give advise. Can I again ask you to just stop, research and think first ?

I thought i did know what i was saying after research. And on gardeners world (yes, it is sad ) thy said that there is a gene in the seed that allows germination after a cold period. But i have now learnt now that it is chemicals/hormones that are effects by the stratification. And as the useful link says:"Factors affecting seed dormancy include the presence of certain plant hormones".

i did not reasearch thoughroughly enough i guess. Sorry. But thank you for teaching me something both of you instead of just saying "you're wrong".

I am sorry, its just i thought i knew what i was saying. I will verify my info first next time.

this is great guys cheers, it helps so much getting direct info from people, you learn thing all the time! ill do things a bit different next time, i be prepared, what are your thought on soil, i cant get vermiculite, or perlite, i know its bad but peat moss is all i can get, will potting compost be just as good

bob wrote: But i have now learnt now that it is chemicals/hormones that are effects by the stratification.

The building plan is in the genes. That creates the cells, that form the seed. The seed is an embryonic plant enclosed in a protective outer covering called the seed coat, usually with some stored food (source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed ).

Also from this article (that I recommend reading, you may want to skip some of the too technical terms in it though, as I did )

"Seed dormancy has two main functions: the first is synchronizing germination with the optimal conditions for survival of the resulting seedling".
There's a lot to read in this article how dormancy works.

You'll notice there are different types of dormancy, one of them is "Chemical dormancy".

So, it's not the genes that cause germination.

Ok, thank you, i will read the whole article as you recommend now i think about it, it is incredibly remarcable that all of the hormones, genes and the embryo (...) is all encased in something that can be 1 50th of a millimeter in size.

thanks very much again you have shed some light to my problem, i wish i had joined this site along time ago, i could have saved alot of wasted seed!

just an update, started the stratifying process in june, our winter here, its september now and have noticed some germinating seeds!!!
when i got the seeds (6 different AP) i cut a few of each type to see if they were healthy, most were apart from 1 batch which were a creamy yellow. i cut a few last month and they had little root shoots, so alls looking good!!
Iv potted the sprouting seeds and check the rest daily,
i cant wait till their ready for shaping , 10/15 years will just fly by :S wont it!!

Lee Beckett wrote: i cant wait till their ready for shaping , 10/15 years will just fly by :S wont it!!

Congratulations! It's fun to grow things from seed, I got a couple of white and black pines I grew from seed, and a few others like chestnut, oak... and yes, 10 years fly by, for me when I wonder how my two young children suddenly turned into two (almost) adults...

haha! my boy will be nearly 15 and my girl will be 12 when there ready hope i have a few other bonsai up to scratch so i can try getting them interested, someone will need to take care of the bonsai when im gone!!!!
iv been looking for black pine seeds, and oak but cant seem to find them online, did you collect yours yourself?

Auk wrote: and yes, 10 years fly by, for me when I wonder how my two young children suddenly turned into two (almost) adults...

Lee Beckett wrote: haha! my boy will be nearly 15 and my girl will be 12 when there ready hope i have a few other bonsai up to scratch so i can try getting them interested, someone will need to take care of the bonsai when im gone!!!!

Ha, mine is only 6 months old, and yes I´m also hoping for time to start "flying by" as I want to introduce him into this art as well. Can´t wait to see my trees and son developing step by step as years go by...

Oh, and by the way... Nice job germinating those seeds, Lee Becket!

Alain