Hello,
Last year, when I was in Greece on summer holiday, I took a pine cone from a tree. After that the seeds went through whole germination process, and this April I planted them in a container, where each seed is separated. Now, my question is not so much bonsai related, but maintaining this small plant in life, so now I'm not sure when should they be re-potted. There are around 20 plants that grew successfully, and they are now 5-6 cm (2-2.5 in) in height (on average). The containers are 10 cm (~4 in) deep. The soil is mixture of 3 parts potting soil, 1 part peat moss, 1 part pine bark and 1 part garden sand. So I know this is going to be very very long process to get a bonsai from a seed, but I really like watching them grow. So now my concern is how should I treat them in order for them to have prosper life? When are they gonna be ready for re-potting? I'm sorry this is not really a bonsai question, but I really couldn't find an answer. Usually it is ether already mature pre-bonsai, or how to grow a pine tree from a seed, which includes planting it in a garden. And here's the picture:


Also I have 2 small trees (I think they are also pine trees) which I plan to make into bonsai. I took them this winter in woods, and brought them with their soil. My question is should I wait another year or so, or should I trim now?



Sorry for the long post and beginners questions, but even though I have read books about making bonsai, I'm still uncertain of some things.
Thank you

Welcome to the forum!
Let them grow, let them grow.
I'd let the seedlings grow until they fill the pot with roots. May take another year or two. Then I'd plant them in either larger containers, or straight in the ground. The same goes with the two young trees you also have. No pruning right now. Just keep them alive & growing.

The purpose of planting in the ground is to let them grow and thicken up. Sacrificial branches/leaders are used to your advantage. The apex can grow & grow, which will increase the diameter of your trunk, then prune it back. The catch with your pines will be maintaining live growth where you want it (lower). If the upper portion is left with all its branches, you may prevent sunlight from reaching the lower branches, lessening their vigor & weakening them. This just means you prune the branches above where you want, while leaving a good leader to keep growing tall.
Once you reach the thickness of tree you want, that's when you cut it back to where you want the next bend or feature. The process starts over again: you choose a new leader & let it grow until the desired thickness is reached. Again, keep the branches you want, & prune the ones you don't need. The base of the trunk (or any part of the trunk or branch) will not increase much in diameter until the leader catches up with it. Only then will it thicken up more significantly. (There are ways to thicken it up without this method, but easier with deciduous trees).
All that said, on your two young tree, think about the diameter you have and the diameter you want. Once you prune it back, you will have to wait until the leader grows enough to really start thickening again. Pines can be difficult, especially for beginners. It may be good to get some other species that require less care for your own bonsai training, while your pines are growing. Something cheap from the local nursery: maples, junipers, elms, privet. They will give you experience as you wait.

Here is a thread that discusses some more of the ground grown trees:
www.bonsaiempire.com/forum/pruning-and-w...epted?start=10#20599

It takes a few years to grow a seed into a bonsai (stick in a pot), then wait a few years. What you need to do, is find a nice looking tree and, reduce it to a 'stump in a pot' and wait a few years. It doesn't matter, because, everyone else will say it's all wrong. (i like the seed method)

Just have fun

The way I see it. You have a few options:
1) Spend a lot of money and buy an already trained Bonsai and take care of it.
2) Spend some money and buy a pre-bonsai, train it to Bonsai and take care of it.
3) Start from seed, learn basics, and practice as you go (grow more than 1!).
4) Buy Nursery stock material, and train it into pre-bonsai, then bonsai.
5) Collect from the wild, train to pre-bonsai and then bonsai.

Option 1 is expensive, risky, and not optimal. You will probably buy a Bonsai that's not that nice for a lot of money, because your eye is not trained yet. There is also a high risk that you will kill it. Eventually you'll have to pinch, re-pot, etc... and without the practice, you might kill it. I would only go with this option if you are very rich and c an hire a professional to take care of the tree, and teach you.

Option 2 is O.K., but you will spend too much money as you will probably kill some trees on the learning process. Option 2 is good for experienced bonsai enthusiasts. Once you have a train eye, and skills, you will choose good material, and money will be well spent. I like this option for experienced people, because pre-bonsai tend to be healthy, and have a well developed root system already, they can be shaped into a nice tree in a few hours. My skill is not here yet, so I don't buy pre-bonsai. Maybe in a few years.

Option 3. I don't know much about starting from seed. All I know is that it takes many years, chances of survival are lowish. Good thing is that you can shape the tree as you grow it, and it can be rewarding for some people to nurture a Bonsai from seed. A big achievement!. Better than starting from seed is to get a cutting, cutting's will be about the same as a 3 year old seedling, and they will keep the shape of the parent tree. If you take a cutting from a healthy, vigorous tree, you might end up with a healthy vigorous tree. A cutting can also be shaped as you grow it. I have a few Juniper cuttings growing in a pot.

Option 4. Probably the best, and my current choice. It is cheap and they have a decent root system. You will get all the practice you need without spending too much money. You can fail, and you won't feel bad about it. The problem with nursery stock, is that they tend to have ugly shapes, suckers, branches going all over the place, etc... The goal here is to turn the nursery stock into a pre-bonsai, then turn it into a bonsai. I've seen world class bonsai that come from regular nursery stock material. Of course, it takes a lot of experience and knowledge to turn nursery stock into Bonsai. I am not there yet, but hopefully some day I will . You will also get better at selecting trees as you gain experience.

Option 5. Classic, ancient form of creating Bonsai. The best Bonsai are collected from the wild. They're old and carry that natural look with them. This can be challenging, collecting, building a root network and training the tree. This is what I think of real Bonsai art, and what I eventually want to do. I have never collected from the wild, but I have some specimens marked, which I will collect once I have more experience.

I also agree with others. Pines are difficult, and they grow way to slow. There's a beautiful small pine in a forest near where I live who probably won't have chance to survive in such a dense evergreen forest. I will probably collect this tree some day . Maybe you can make a small pine forest with your trees someday? You won't need such thick trunk for this, but you can shape them all to have harmony in a forest set up. just an idea.

Actually, seeds work, but you need a bunch. Some to plant in the garden, some for the slightly bigger pots, some for small pots. Then, of course, first year seedlings, don't always make it through winter, especially the ones that barely make it to the twig stage. Get your seeds growing as early as possible, maybe they can be a twig, before winter hits.

and plant extras