Tropfrog wrote:

I very much appreciate your honesty. It sure points out that collection of wild trees is not easy and should not be atempted by beginner without supervision of more experienced bonsai artists. When you have made a few successful repotting and root reduction on nurcery stock trees you get the feel for it. Then it gets easier. I have been doing bonsai for 7 years now and still it seems like I am stuck at 50% success rate on collecting trees. Not good enough to risk collection of those really awsome and very old ones.

Because I live in such a remote community finding another bonsai artist is impossible... So my only option is to grit my teeth through the failures and learn from them. As long as I learn I don't think it's wasted time. My technique has improved, and I've sourced better substrate. I've also invested in Mirai Live which has been great. Randy Knight's video about collecting trees was a godsend.

I agree with you about collecting the truly spectacular trees. I'd never dream of touching one unless I was 100% sure I could have it thrive. The areas I chose to collect from are regularly slashed up for trails, harvested for firewood or worse. This year I saw a huge area completely cleared out for new housing. Many wonderful trees were turned into mulch.

Tropfrog wrote:

I very much appreciate your honesty. It sure points out that collection of wild trees is not easy and should not be atempted by beginner without supervision of more experienced bonsai artists. When you have made a few successful repotting and root reduction on nurcery stock trees you get the feel for it. Then it gets easier. I have been doing bonsai for 7 years now and still it seems like I am stuck at 50% success rate on collecting trees. Not good enough to risk collection of those really awsome and very old ones.

I got my first tree (azalea, actually) in 1969. I don't think I have 50%, unless you count the azaleas I dug up recently, any maybe not even with them. I dig them up just as the procedures say, and they die for (I think) a number of reasons.

One I need to work on is that the pots heat up significantly in the Alabama summer, baking the roors, and I need to do something about that. I don't know what.

Ivan wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

I very much appreciate your honesty. It sure points out that collection of wild trees is not easy and should not be atempted by beginner without supervision of more experienced bonsai artists. When you have made a few successful repotting and root reduction on nurcery stock trees you get the feel for it. Then it gets easier. I have been doing bonsai for 7 years now and still it seems like I am stuck at 50% success rate on collecting trees. Not good enough to risk collection of those really awsome and very old ones.

I got my first tree (azalea, actually) in 1969. I don't think I have 50%, unless you count the azaleas I dug up recently, any maybe not even with them. I dig them up just as the procedures say, and they die for (I think) a number of reasons.

One I need to work on is that the pots heat up significantly in the Alabama summer, baking the roors, and I need to do something about that. I don't know what.

Not that I am the best adviser here. In swedish we say "like a blind leading a deaf through the trafic jam".

But I think it has a lot to do with the sun heating up the pot. Besides full shade, which I think you are experienced enough to do, I think burrying the pot in the ground first summer may be a success. I have also seen people covering the pot in reflective tid foil, don't know how effecient that would be, but maybe worth a try if burry is not a feasible option.

"like a blind leading a deaf through the trafic jam".

I like this. It's sort of what it feels like to learn bonsai from the internet!

I can't figure out if I'm the deaf or the blind though.

JPH wrote:

"like a blind leading a deaf through the trafic jam".

I like this. It's sort of what it feels like to learn bonsai from the internet!

I can't figure out if I'm the deaf or the blind though.

Depends if you're leading or do you follow.

Deaf it is! But at least I can see the traffic!

Tropfrog wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

I very much appreciate your honesty. It sure points out that collection of wild trees is not easy and should not be atempted by beginner without supervision of more experienced bonsai artists. When you have made a few successful repotting and root reduction on nurcery stock trees you get the feel for it. Then it gets easier. I have been doing bonsai for 7 years now and still it seems like I am stuck at 50% success rate on collecting trees. Not good enough to risk collection of those really awsome and very old ones.

I got my first tree (azalea, actually) in 1969. I don't think I have 50%, unless you count the azaleas I dug up recently, any maybe not even with them. I dig them up just as the procedures say, and they die for (I think) a number of reasons.

One I need to work on is that the pots heat up significantly in the Alabama summer, baking the roors, and I need to do something about that. I don't know what.

Not that I am the best adviser here. In swedish we say "like a blind leading a deaf through the traffic jam".

But I think it has a lot to do with the sun heating up the pot. Besides full shade, which I think you are experienced enough to do, I think burying the pot in the ground first summer may be a success. I have also seen people covering the pot in reflective tin foil, don't know how efficient that would be, but maybe worth a try if burry is not a feasible option.

Tin foil might be the answer. Maybe wrap the pot up on it, rather than cover the soil - I am thinking about watering and breathing, and that maybe the tin foil would interfere with those. Wrapping the pot in it would probably cool the inside of the pot enough. I think I will try that next summer, at repotting time. That would also be a clue to what has been repotted so far.

I love the swedish saying there. It would be meaningful in any language.

Sorry, kind of off topic, but I have also experienced a 50% success rate with yamadori. Glad to hear it is not something I am doing wrong. Last year, every tree I had collected that the spring also died due to bad overwintering. They were up on a deck and were totally encased in a thick layer of ice. This year I am going to put my new set of trees (collected this spring) in my garden bed with their pots. Hopefully this will be enough insulation.

We most certainly did something wrong. I know I did!

After listening to Randy Knight talk about his process (he has a success rate of something like 95%!!), I've changed a few things.

A ) PUMICE! I finally found a reliable source of the stuff, so I'm saying goodbye to fir bark.

B ) Better anchoring: The trees that died were not anchored well enough. They rocked in the wind and I suspect that had a huge impact on their ability to recover.

C ) Overwinter protection: I can't afford a greenhouse right now. But we do have an unheated porch. There aren't any windows but after listening to/reading about how David Crust overwinters his trees, I'm confident it will work.

D ) Placement: All of my collected trees will be placed on the GROUND to recover in order to take advantage of the earth's heating/cooling properties. Randy Knight swears by this.