Hi guys... I have a doubt or perhaps I should say a problem, still not quite sure.

You´ll see I´ve defoliated my two acer palmatum trees at the same time, in order to diminish the leaves size and possibly shorten the branches internode length. I did this on July 4th. Now, almost three weeks later one of them has vigorously started to resprout but the other one is showing no signs of new sprouts at all. The curious thing is that they are planted in the same pot, with the same soil mix and have suffered exactly the same weather conditions. So, here come my questions...

Is it normal a behavior like this? Could two trees of the same species, under the same circumstances, defoliated at the same time resprout at different times? Is the still non resprouting tree going to fail forming new leaves and consequently die?

I really would appreciate a clarifying response to this because right now I´m starting to worry myself... It seems so bizarre to me Of course, I´m also posting some photos for you to compare and see my point. Thank you all in advance...

Alain

I have to say that I never completely dofoliate any tree. I do th larger leaves only, and not all at the same time. It is a highly stressful thing to do, and if the tree is a little weak, then it could be disasterous. Fingers crossed it is just a bit slow getting going again.
Geoff.

Hm.. You need seriously healthy plant for defoliating to do anything. Especially when your plants are as young as these, they need a lot fo growing before you get to the need of defoliating.

To get shorter internodes with AP, you pinch the growing tip as soon as the first leavs appear in spring. Then you let it grow, and cut back after mid-summer to the first one or 2 pairs.

I would say the tree has had a big shock; Each plant is individual though. Just the amount of sun of wind one side of the opts gets can already affect growing habit. I would not worry too much yet. (not however that the one with leaves, only seems to have leaves from a few spots, and not from the full canopy. This might hint at growing tips that were left in place, and created new foliage, instead of buds opening)

alainleon1983 wrote:

Hi guys... I have a doubt or perhaps I should say a problem, still not quite sure.

You´ll see I´ve defoliated my two acer palmatum trees at the same time

Why would you want to do that on trees that need to develop and currently hardly have branches ???

After reading your opinions and advices I must accept that I might have possibly made an awful beginner mistake.

Why would you want to do that on trees that need to develop and currently hardly have branches ???

I did this in the first place, as I said in my previous post:

to diminish the leaves size and possibly shorten the branches internode length

. Second, I took a look at my trees and thought they were both healthy enough to endure this procedure. Obviously, at least for one of the trees, it might have been a mis-consideration.

Now the things I was not fully aware of:

1-

I have to say that I never completely dofoliate any tree. I do th larger leaves only, and not all at the same time

I thought that once I started defoliating a tree I should perform it to the whole tree

2-

To get shorter internodes with AP, you pinch the growing tip as soon as the first leavs appear in spring. Then you let it grow, and cut back after mid-summer to the first one or 2 pairs.

Sorry leatherback, but I´m not sure of knowing what "AP" stands for. Oh, and thanks for this advice, very helpful indeed.

3-

not however that the one with leaves, only seems to have leaves from a few spots, and not from the full canopy. This might hint at growing tips that were left in place, and created new foliage, instead of buds opening

Well, in this tree the new leaves are sprouting all over the place, from the growing tips, the branches, everywhere. There a few very small shoots that are still starting to sprout and can not be seen in the photograph, I have no serious concerns about it.

Finally... Thank you Geoff, Leatherback and Auk. As one of you said, it might not be to late for the second one. I´ll cross my fingers and hope for the best.

Alain

alainleon1983 wrote:

After reading your opinions and advices I must accept that I might have possibly made an awful beginner mistake.

Why would you want to do that on trees that need to develop and currently hardly have branches ???

I did this in the first place, as I said in my previous post:

to diminish the leaves size and possibly shorten the branches internode length

. Second, I took a look at my trees and thought they were both healthy enough to endure this procedure. Obviously, at least for one of the trees, it might have been a mis-consideration.

For your trees I would recommend the same as what's recommended often: let them grow and develop.
They are not really at a stage yet where you would want to defoliate them.

I thought that once I started defoliating a tree I should perform it to the whole tree

I have one Acer that I defoliate completely. I can even defoliate it 2 or 3 times per year.
This however is a failed project - a sugar maple I planted 20 years ago and of which I pinched out the top.
When two new pairs of leaves developed, again I pinched out the top. Next 4 new tops developed... etc... etc... etc.
The tree has a very nice ramification and small (relatively speaking) leaves... small problem though is that it's now more than 2 metres high and won't fit in a pot anymore

The big difference is that this big tree, that is in full ground, is very strong and vigourous, I need to prune it weekly in the growing season and it can withstand defoliation without any problem.

I have another one small acer - a Little Princess (acer palmatum kiyohime) that's in a relatively large pot. While this is not a bonsai yet, it was a developed young tree. This one I have defoliated partly - I've removed most of the leaves and some branches in the top, to hopefully make it develop new buds lower on the trunk. These I will let grow to get more taper and to get better branch placement. This tree I think is not ready for full defoliation yet, it needs to develop further first.

I guess you read the article on Bonsai4me? quoting:
[defoliation] results in increased ramification and leaf density, a reduction in leaf size and internode length and finally, superior Autumn colours.

however, as mentioned in this article:
Many enthusiasts first try defoliating on trees that are not horticulturally and/or aesthetically ready for defoliation.
And yours were not ready.

Sorry leatherback, but I´m not sure of knowing what "AP" stands for.

Acer Palmatum

I guess you read the article on Bonsai4me? quoting:

Nope, I hadn´t read it, wish I had though. Actually, I just came from bonsai4me´s article on defoliation that you recommended me and after reading it, I´m really sure that I performed a way too stressful procedure on my trees. Well, there also states that the amount of time for responding might vary from 3-6 weeks so I´m hoping that everything it´s not fully lost yet despite my mistake.

Thanks...

Alain

alainleon1983 wrote:

Well, there also states that the amount of time for responding might vary from 3-6 weeks so I´m hoping that everything it´s not fully lost yet despite my mistake.

It is not lost. As always, be patient.

As you don't seem to mind my dutch bluntness:
I think these trees need more deveopment. Let 'm grow for a while. I already said that.
What I did not say yet:
I think the position of the trees in the pot is totally wrong. Not only is the symmetry not aesthetically pleasing, placing the trees so far off the center and both close to the edge of the pot really doesn't look nice either. Also, it restricts the growth of the roots on the sides that are against the pot.

I'd repot them. Obviously not now, though.

No, I don´t mind you being blunt as long as your points of view, opinions and advices are exposed from respect. That, as well as other more knowledgeable members of this forum, you always do.

Now

I think these trees need more deveopment. Let 'm grow for a while. I already said that.
What I did not say yet:
I think the position of the trees in the pot is totally wrong. Not only is the symmetry not aesthetically pleasing, placing the trees so far off the center and both close to the edge of the pot really doesn't look nice either. Also, it restricts the growth of the roots on the sides that are against the pot.

I will actually repot them, I haven´t done it so far because I acquired them in late May and the time for repotting was long gone. As a matter of fact, I think I posted this subject already in another topic on this forum. That time, besides the aesthetically obvious issues, I noticed that water didn´t drain too well and that had me thinking to repot them even in June, but then again, after a couple of days of a better watering regime, water didn´t swamp anymore and started draining better. So, I decide it to postpone this task for next spring and as a result I´ve purchased a couple of bigger training pots to place them... (I don´t have any open ground to plant the trees) Oh, and yes... My goal is to separate them into two different trees, that is of course, if one of them don´t die this time.

Your plans are good. Good luck with both!