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mysterious black tip leaves

  • Kaneda
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mysterious black tip leaves was created by Kaneda

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38302
Hi all,
I have searched through many forums and found very little on this condition, it is the second Chinese Elm I have bought from the same dealer that has developed this trait although it may well be something I am doing wrong. The first tree eventually died as every bud that developed wilted and all the leaves went black at the tip and fell off.
I was told by the dealer who is a Bonsai specialist, to keep the tree well watered so the soil is wet to the touch however I am aware over-watering can be just as bad so I have allowed good draingage (the pot does not sit in water) and I tend to water approximately once a week or when I notice the first inch of soil becoming slightly dry. The amount of water I give it is just enough to start to form a small puddle on the surface, which then drains freely through the soil and out the bottom drainage holes. The tree is kept indoors next to a south facing window however here in the UK we don't have much sun so I know its not sun damage. I am not feeding the tree at this point as I know not to feed a sick bonsai.
At the moment the Bonsai is budding well with constant new shoots but each one soon wilts and dies off with the tips turning black, no dry appearance.
Many thanks for your help in advance.
by Kaneda

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  • bob
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Replied by bob on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38306
I haven't posted in a while so I will refrain from giving instructions. However, I will give my opinion on your situation anyhow. personally, I think the wiring doesn't help the situation, but again, i do not say to take it off, but it is my thinking that at the moment the tree's very health is of upmost priority, and training can wait for a bit, so that is why i think the wiring can wait.

as for the black tips etc. maybe the culprit is humidity, it being indoors and all. The shoots look as though they aren't getting a lot of light. Apart from my view of the situation, I advise to wait for further instruction in this topic. things to consider:
maybe think about putting it outside under some shelter uf you have a garden
think more on developing the plant as a plant maybe before starting to develop it as a bonsai. in other words, it is best I think to focus on its health for now.
maybe at some point consider putting it in a larger pot to develop it more.

as i said, this is simply my analysis and i give no solid instructions for you because I have not done this in a while. I just hope my help is better than none.

cheers
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Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38307
just to clarrify, my suggestions at the end of my previous post are long term and i don't recommend doing them now.
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  • Kaneda
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Replied by Kaneda on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38308
Thanks Bob, that's something at least. The previous tree was much larger, more expensive and had no wiring as it was already developed and it did the same thing. You may have a point about it not getting enough light as I feel if this was in a greenhouse or a country that gets sun it may do better. With regards to humidity I've given it some air from an open window but I've heard from others that this variety likes lots of humidiy. Root rot is one of my concerns as is over-watering because it looks like the tree is just too damp and does not have the means for the root system to breathe. Unfortunately here in the UK the outside temperatures early in the year will kill the Chinese Elm so I will wait until it gets warmer for that.
Thanks again Bob.
by Kaneda

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Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38309
fair enough, maybe what would be good for finding the cause/getting better advice would be to take detailed pictures of the whole tree, pot, soil etc.
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  • alainleon1983
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Replied by alainleon1983 on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38314

Kaneda wrote: I was told by the dealer who is a Bonsai specialist, to keep the tree well watered so the soil is wet to the touch however I am aware over-watering can be just as bad so I have allowed good draingage (the pot does not sit in water) and I tend to water approximately once a week or when I notice the first inch of soil becoming slightly dry. The amount of water I give it is just enough to start to form a small puddle on the surface, which then drains freely through the soil and out the bottom drainage holes. The tree is kept indoors next to a south facing window however here in the UK we don't have much sun so I know its not sun damage. I am not feeding the tree at this point as I know not to feed a sick bonsai.

At this point, it really seems that what you need in first place, it´s learning the basics (as we all have done at some point):

Watering guidelines: www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bonsai-care/watering
Trees allocation guidelines: www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bonsai-care/position
Substrate guidelines: www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bonsai-care/advanced/bonsai-soil
Fertilizing guidelines: www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/bonsai-care/fertilizing
Wiring guidelines: www.bonsaiempire.com/basics/styling/wiring (This one, though, is by far less important than the first three links. Actually, I´m pretty sure that your tree at this point would require no wiring at all)

Oh... One more thing... Please, refrain of considering a dealer as a "Bonsai Specialist". Most dealers are not, and their main concern is indeed selling plants (notice that I didn´t say Bonsai or trees), more often than not, their advices tend to go on the opposite direction of a good care regime of our plants/trees.

Hope this might have been of help.

Alain
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  • BonsaiLearner
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Replied by BonsaiLearner on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38319

Kaneda wrote: I tend to water approximately once a week or when I notice the first inch of soil becoming slightly dry. The amount of water I give it is just enough to start to form a small puddle on the surface, which then drains freely through the soil and out the bottom drainage holes.
...
I am not feeding the tree at this point as I know not to feed a sick bonsai.


It sounds as if you are watering your tree well. Not fertilising was a good idea, too.
Dark leaf-tips can sometimes be a sign of over-watering, so maybe leaving it until the soil is a bit dryer would be better.
A south-facing window sounds like a good place to keep your tree and you say the leaves don't feel dry, so I doubt it is getting too much sun

Ed
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Replied by Kaneda on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38321
Thanks for the advice, I dont want to name the dealer but it is a very well established bonsai centre here in UK with trees he's produced costing thousands, so it's not a garden centre as such- but the fact two elms possibly from the same cuttings have developed this suggests it could be to do with the material he sold. I still would like to know what would cause the black tips as this hasn't been answered and I've not seen evidence of this on searches I've done.
Last Edit:6 years 1 month ago by Kaneda
Last edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Kaneda.

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  • alainleon1983
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Replied by alainleon1983 on topic mysterious black tip leaves

Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38335

Kaneda wrote: I still would like to know what would cause the black tips as this hasn't been answered and I've not seen evidence of this on searches I've done.


Maybe this would be of help:

homeguides.sfgate.com/chinese-elm-problems-42436.html

And it was just one Google search away :whistle:

Alain
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Posted 6 years 1 month ago #38336
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