TOPIC: Where to start on first long term pine project?

Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33178

Indo Andreas wrote: It is definitely a tree, meaning you could start gaining experiences on it


This is a bonsai forum. Saying "Nice tree" would therefore implicate it is a nice tree for bonsai, which is not true.

There is always a way to do things with any tree, so why not playing and learning on this one


The question was not if this was a good tree for playing and learning, but where to start a first long term project with this tree.
Surely the tree would be good for practicing things like wiring and shaping. It is not a good tree for a long term project for a beginner.

Can't help but wonder why the audience is never considered, leading to people giving carving advice to a total newbie with a severely neglected elm, high level substrate advice for indoor mallsai that are practically dead, pruning / wiring advice for useless juniper cuttings and such. I really do not think this is helping new bonsai enthusiasts.

I think what we need to advise new people is to start with good material.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33184

Enaisio wrote: I think that would make a nice literati stile , I like the angle it comes up at , I think it's good material but wait for the more experienced member they will probs tell you otherwise hehehe


Literati? why literati? trunk has no movement. Also, literati is really hard, why go for literati when he can go upright with this tree and get some practice?

This is nice material to learn. Mature enough to practice and get hands on, but don't expect a beautiful bonsai out of it.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33221

leatherback wrote: Please leave deities out of it. I am here for bonsai, not personal live convictions. And a tree can be not good for bonsai.

i'm here for bonsai too, I'm just saying that we should appreciate what the newbies gave for the tree. And I think it's a good tree for learning. By learning and understanding, I am sure can be a beautiful bonsai. Essentially do not break the spirit of the beginner to start a bonsai, because I am also a beginner. Thank you.;)
Sorry if my words offend you.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33412

konlabos wrote:

leatherback wrote: Please leave deities out of it. I am here for bonsai, not personal live convictions. And a tree can be not good for bonsai.

i'm here for bonsai too, I'm just saying that we should appreciate what the newbies gave for the tree. And I think it's a good tree for learning. By learning and understanding, I am sure can be a beautiful bonsai. Essentially do not break the spirit of the beginner to start a bonsai, because I am also a beginner. Thank you.;)
Sorry if my words offend you.


Agreed, there seems to be a lot of discouragement here from some posters especially towards newbies that come here to learn and grow in the hobby. To the point where I don't want to post pics of my collected trash plants just so I get told "those aren't Bonsai" or any of the usual comments. Pretty sure all were newbies at some point, unless you were bitten by a radioactive Bonsai and imbued with instant bonsai genius powers.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33417

I am not sure what in the responses is discouraging. I believe everyone agreed the tree was suitable for learning. That is not discouraging.

There were also some honest opinions on the troubles with the tree (lack of lower branches, lots of branches coming out at the same point). It is comments like these that I appreciate because as a beginner these tips are very useful.

As for the "those are not Bonsai" posts. Most often the pictures are not of Bonsai but mass produced houseplants. So again you are getting honesty. I don't believe most of the posters of those trees at interested in learning Bonsai. In the rare cases the OP does seem to understand and usually posts more follow up questions.

The only thing I found somewhat discouraging was Leatherbacks response to a poster who referenced "God". This forum is international and I am sure many faiths are represented here as well as athiests. I hate to see posts that attack anyone's personal beliefs be them atheist, Christian, Muslim, etc. If Leatherback did not agree with the posters personal beliefs the respectful response is to not say anything. I agree with Leatherbacks opinion that this forum is about Bonsai but I believe not responding is the proper way to keep it that way.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33419

TBolt wrote: Agreed, there seems to be a lot of discouragement here from some posters especially towards newbies that come here to learn and grow in the hobby.


No one is discouraging anyone from learning and growing into the hobby.
People are encouraged to study, learn about bonsai, join clubs, read books, learn to make better judgment on the material they select and to not waste time on material that is not very suitable - or that isn't a tree at all.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33421

coltranem wrote: I hate to see posts that attack anyone's personal beliefs


I do not think Leatherback attacked a belief, but the remark that we should consider any tree for bonsai as they all are God's (Allah's, Evolution's, the flying spathetti monster's) creations. This is nonsense. Some trees simply are not suitable for bonsai, no matter what your religion is.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33425

Auk wrote:

coltranem wrote: I hate to see posts that attack anyone's personal beliefs


I do not think Leatherback attacked a belief, but the remark that we should consider any tree for bonsai as they all are God's (Allah's, Evolution's, the flying spathetti monster's) creations. This is nonsense. Some trees simply are not suitable for bonsai, no matter what your religion is.


If that is the case then i misunderstood leatherbacks post.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33437

coltranem wrote:

Auk wrote:

coltranem wrote: I hate to see posts that attack anyone's personal beliefs


I do not think Leatherback attacked a belief, but the remark that we should consider any tree for bonsai as they all are God's (Allah's, Evolution's, the flying spathetti monster's) creations. This is nonsense. Some trees simply are not suitable for bonsai, no matter what your religion is.


If that is the case then i misunderstood leatherbacks post.


Oh no. I meant: We are discussing bonsai. So leave your religion at home. I so do not care what you do or do not believe. But leave it at home. As someone posted above: This is an international forum with people from around the globe. So refrain from religion or politics and just stick to bonsai. One can take these remrks both ways. Say I am a fundamental atheist. That could mean I would be very much insulted if someone takes away from the beauty of nature by breing deities into the picture. So, let's not do politics or religion here.

I for one get very tired of all the complaints about peoplpe being discouraged. I am very sorry but this is not kindergarten. If people come here for advice, accept that you may have bought something that is not suitable. If you cannot deal with hearing an honest opinion, do not go to aforum. In every hobby there are certain specific words used for specific items. So if you misuse the term, it is very helpfull if someone points that out. If noone ever points out the mistakes in your reasoning, what is the use of getting feedback? And some are more to the point than others. Again. This is an international forum. You get all types and backgrounds.
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Where to start on first long term pine project? 1 year 5 months ago #33438

TBolt wrote: To the point where I don't want to post pics of my collected trash plants just so I get told "those aren't Bonsai" or any of the usual comments. Pretty sure all were newbies at some point, unless you were bitten by a radioactive Bonsai and imbued with instant bonsai genius powers.


Odd. So you do not want to learn what the good and the weak points are in the material you are working with? So how to learn what to base your selection on? I wish there had been someone around when I just started out.It would have safed me a season playing with tiny seedlings of a species totally unsuitable for bonsai. Truely do not understand why people are not interested in learning why you shuld look for in good material
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