Auk wrote:

TBolt wrote: Agreed, there seems to be a lot of discouragement here from some posters especially towards newbies that come here to learn and grow in the hobby.

No one is discouraging anyone from learning and growing into the hobby.
People are encouraged to study, learn about bonsai, join clubs, read books, learn to make better judgment on the material they select and to not waste time on material that is not very suitable - or that isn't a tree at all.

I've only been here for a bit and I see a lot of those sort of comments towards posters looking for help. Some could explain to them why its not perceived as a bonsai instead of the offhanded "That's not a Bonsai" then no help. If a person bought a crappy Walmart alleged Bonsai, tell them why its not and maybe guide them towards making a better tree out of it, I believe most anything can be turned in to good base material. You should see my collection, thrown out rubber trees and maples, mower damaged parson's Junipers and other assorted plants I see potential in. There's a red bay in my back yard I have my eye on, too.

TBolt wrote: I've only been here for a bit and I see a lot of those sort of comments towards posters looking for help. Some could explain to them why its not perceived as a bonsai instead of the offhanded "That's not a Bonsai" then no help. If a person bought a crappy Walmart alleged Bonsai, tell them why its not and maybe guide them towards making a better tree out of it, I believe most anything can be turned in to good base material. You should see my collection, thrown out rubber trees and maples, mower damaged parson's Junipers and other assorted plants I see potential in. There's a red bay in my back yard I have my eye on, too.

What has happened to nettiquette, where you first search a forum for sumilar questions, read, and then ask a question in a new forum? If you have been here for a while, you know there is a set of 5-10 questions that gets asked every few days. It is those questins that get an offfhand respons. Alll serious people, get serious answers as far as I can tell. But perhaps it is a generation thing.

not going to keep arguing about it as its not seen as a problem to be discouraging. To the o/p, I like the pine and see potential, this is an artform and the art is in the hands of the person doing it.

TBolt wrote: the art is in the hands of the person doing it.

A definition I heard: art is art when the artist says it is art.
I am not buying it. It would mean that any plant in a pot is a bonsai, if we say it is a bonsai.

Bonsai is not the art of putting something random in a random pot and style int randomly.
It is the art - and craft - to style a tree so that it represents an image of a tree in nature.

For really good bonsai, you need really good material.

leatherback wrote:

TBolt wrote: To the point where I don't want to post pics of my collected trash plants just so I get told "those aren't Bonsai" or any of the usual comments. Pretty sure all were newbies at some point, unless you were bitten by a radioactive Bonsai and imbued with instant bonsai genius powers.

Odd. So you do not want to learn what the good and the weak points are in the material you are working with? So how to learn what to base your selection on? I wish there had been someone around when I just started out.It would have safed me a season playing with tiny seedlings of a species totally unsuitable for bonsai. Truely do not understand why people are not interested in learning why you shuld look for in good material

My selections are based on what I get my dirty little mitts on from the horticulture department at work and what I personally remove there for relandscaping, I am basically a recycler of trees. Something that's been neglected or damaged for years usually has a lot of character and to me that is what I look for. I like to find material that has a story behind it.

TBolt wrote: My selections are based on what I get my dirty little mitts on from the horticulture department at work and what I personally remove there for relandscaping, I am basically a recycler of trees. Something that's been neglected or damaged for years usually has a lot of character and to me that is what I look for. I like to find material that has a story behind it.

Sounds interesting. Please share some.

I think someone besides having to make bonsai from a good material, should also be able to maximize from the material they say "ugly". Because a master will not be a master of bonsai only of good material. And not everyone can buy or get good material. Thank you ...

konlabos wrote: I think someone besides having to make bonsai from a good material, should also be able to maximize from the material they say "ugly". Because a master will not be a master of bonsai only of good material. And not everyone can buy or get good material. Thank you ...

Altbough it is true that skilled/experienced artists can make a tree out of pretty much any tree, why limit yourself? Learn to recognize better material, en leave the plants with less potential. I think that is the main take-home message that some of the more experienced members are tryin to get across. Do not just accept the first plant you see. I for one spent a lot of time looking at plants when I want to buy something. Start by deciding the species is suitable. Then you look at rootbase & trunk. If those 3 elements are OK, then you have material with good potential. In any other situation you either have a plant that will never be stunning (Wrong species) or will take a decade or more to get to the starting point.

I disagree that "not everyone can buy or get good material". It an be found just about everywhere. Be it in a garden centre, or using the fact that people like to change their gardens. The plants with most potential to become good bonsai in my collection are backyard rescues. The trees I have from bonsai nurseries are all fairly boring and will not make the most interesting trees, although they may become very good because the trunk & rootbase were well developed.

konlabos wrote: I think someone besides having to make bonsai from a good material, should also be able to maximize from the material they say "ugly". Because a master will not be a master of bonsai only of good material. And not everyone can buy or get good material. Thank you ...

There are only a few real bonsai masters, I am not one of them, and I can assure you you will not find one on this forum.
Then even a master will need great material to make great bonsai.

Everyone can get good material. My best tree I got for free when it still was a neglected juniper in a concrete flower pot at a camping.

Ok, i understand what latherback and auk mean. Thank you for enlightening, hopefully be learning for all in this forum.
Just advice, when giving advice try using a language that does not offend other people. Because there maybe some people who dont like the explanation, maybe a little softened. Because we all come from different countries, I think we should respect each other's opinions.
thank you...