To give the new buds the maximum light possible (and thus best survival rate) , you could remove the old dying needles.

FrankC wrote:

To give the new buds the maximum light possible (and thus best survival rate) , you could remove the old dying needles.

Done! I've trimmed the brown parts of the needled and removed the dead needles.


I've forgot to mention, I do have other trees in pots: plenty of deciduous material (wisteria, maple, oak, silk tree).
For them I have been recommended by a local phytopharmacy to treat the trunk with some copper based blue chemical before winter and before budding in spring.

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Given these substances are meant for the trunk and not leaves, I've figured it's not adequate for evergreen (and thus not for JBP).
So far, besides fertiliser in spring/summer, I haven't treated the needles, nor the trunk.
Should I do something for winter?

There was no reason to cut needles. They whole needle will die anyway.

I would not use any copper treatment on any tree.

The reason to remove old needles in my perspective would be so the tree doesn't waste anymore energy on useless needles.

Copper treatment is very usefull to avoid sporus proliferation if you're having issues with fungi, but be aware that it's a contact fungicid, if the tree is already infected, it won't cure it, it will just stop the fungi cycle...

About using or not, is a personal decision, but everytime you buy grapes or wines, have in mind that it was treated with copper sulphate, even organic ones, since it's just a mineral...

I've also want to point out one major thing, generally deciduous trees are treated on winter with a LIME SULPHUR solution, if you've seen those Maples with white trunk and branches, that's the result of lime sulphur...

Yes, obviously one need to remove old dead needles. Also, on more mature trees we remove old healthy needles to promote smaller needles in the next flush. My answer was solely on what I thought was cutting a needle that is half brown and half green. I cannot come up with any reason for that. In my head there are just two options. Removing the whole needle when it is in that stage or just wait until the tree has regained the last energy in the needle and it is totally brown and remove it then. Cutting the needles is not at all any issue for the tree, just a waste of time since the last part needs to be taken off anyway.

Using copper treatments or not is obvious a personal decition, just like anything else in bonsai, in any hobby or in anyones personal life. That is why the statement was "I would not use any copper treatment on any tree". Copper is a fertilizer and a poison that can kill a tree. Some of the fertilizers I use have copper in it. But I consider using copper in any stronger solution than what the tree actually need is taking an unecessary risk.

Tropfrog wrote:

That is why the statement was "I would not use any copper treatment on any tree".

With all due respect, I don't have any problem with you using or not, you gave your opinion, I gave mine...
There's always instructions with safe doses on the back...
About the needles, the main recomendation Frank made was "Removing old needles" not cuting them.

The way you're antagonizing every other opinion, makes it sound like your opinion is the only one valid here, or that you're the only one allowed to share opinions here...

I never killed any tree following fungicide instructions.
But let me know if you think I should be silenced.

Merry Christmas Magnus.

Albas wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

That is why the statement was "I would not use any copper treatment on any tree".

With all due respect, I don't have any problem with you using or not, you gave your opinion, I gave mine...

Same respect back to you my friend. Reading the words again....Yes, it is possible to state that I gave an opinion. But that was really not my intention. I just agreed with you and clarified why I don't use copper treatment. I am not really into political discussions and I don't have any firm opinions in this hobby.

Albas wrote:

The way you're antagonizing every other opinion, makes it sound like your opinion is the only one valid here, or that you're the only one allowed to share opinions here...

Hmm....Reading back again. I just cannot understand where that beliefe comes from. Is it from this statement?

Tropfrog wrote:

Using copper treatments or not is obvious a personal decition, just like anything else in bonsai, in any hobby or in anyones personal life.

However, it is good to base that decition on something. Talking about pros and cons is a way to give that base. Not a way to start vendettas.

Albas wrote:

About the needles, the main recomendation Frank made was "Removing old needles" not cuting them.

I agree totally. My comment on not cutting the needles in half was based TS answer to that. That he shosed to remove dead needles and cut the half dead needles after Franks recomendation. My intention was to help TS, not start an argument with you or Frank. I also stated that it does not harm the tree, just is a waste of time. Yes, you can view it as an opinion, but it is also possible to view it as a conclusion. I did miss to say that everyone does what everyone wants or that everyone have the right to have their own opinion. But that is the solid base for all discussions. Respect for everyones person, belliefe, opinion, rase, sexual orientation or political preferences.

I know I have been a valid target for this kind of posts for a long time. But really, I think it is getting very old. I would prefere if comments targeting missunderstandings around the written language or me as a person was sent directly to me via PM. I am sure we can solve them between us without making an argument in the forum. If corrections is needed, I am happy to do so. This kind of argument is not good for the hobby or the forum and certanly it is not helping TS

Albas wrote:

I never killed any tree following fungicide instructions.
But let me know if you think I should be silenced.

Merry Christmas Magnus.

OH, sorry I missed that one early in the morning

No, I don't think any opinion on cultivating the trees we love to work with should be silenced. Not yours, not anyone elses.

Merry christmas to you as well.

@Albas, @Tropfrog I thank you both for taking the time and share your opinions based off your experience!
Make no mistake, I read carefully every answer, weight it and decide how to move forward based on my needs.

I do have a follow up question for each of you, so if you are so kind:

@Albas, the copper treatment (at least the one I’ve encountered) is meant for the trunk and branches (not the foliage).
Therefor it’s applied in late autumn and early spring, when the foliage is absent.
Do you use copper treatment on evergreen? If so, how and when?

@Tropfrog do you have unpleasant experiences with copper treatments?
I respect that you are against it, but can you tell us why?

Merry x-mas to both of you!

Razvan wrote:

@Tropfrog do you have unpleasant experiences with copper treatments?
I respect that you are against it, but can you tell us why?

Merry x-mas to both of you!

I have never used copper treatments. I am not against it, just have never identified a need for it. If I get into issues that can be solved using copper treatments and nothing else, I would consider using it.

And that is also what I am missing in this discussion. The why.

Why excactly do you think about copper treatment? What is the issues you want to correct or prevent with it?