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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44456

  • crisraw
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I understand many new enthusiasts may be confused as to what a Bonsai (‘Planted in a container’) is. I would like to think that during their confusion and need for knowledge, a forum would endeavour to assist and guide members in a ‘Zen’ like, polite manner. Not using terse language in their response
Referring back to my post ‘members will leave the forum’ at the first hurdle due to negative replies. Bonsai has close spiritual links to Zen Buddhism and is not associated with snobbery, aggression, bullying or rudeness
I think maybe you need to ‘go to great lengths to suggest to the new user how to use the forum’ and avoid asking any questions more than once and if that is ignored or the questions are deemed to be about a ‘plant in a container’ the member has a choice......to remain as a member and be vilified or find a forum that is informative, supportive, educational, patient and ‘Zen’ like

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44457

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I teach calculus. If someone in a class asks a question I don't tell them they don't understand calculus. We all knew that. If they understood it, they would not be taking the class.



But they are asking you about grammar. So you tell them: That's not calculus. If they understood that,they would not be taking the class.
Now imagine that 95 out of 100 of your new students ask grammer questions. You'll explain the difference patiently to the first 10, 20, 30... some understand, and still want to learn calculus. Some of them get angry as, well, you can write down numbers and you can write down letters, so it's the same thing! At number 31, you start to wish someone would put up a sign on the door of the class explaining the basics and where to go if they want to study grammar so you don't have to repeat yourself over and over and over again.

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Last edit: Post by Auk.

What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44458

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I understand many new enthusiasts may be confused as to what a Bonsai (‘Planted in a container’) is. I would like to think that during their confusion and need for knowledge, a forum would endeavour to assist and guide members in a ‘Zen’ like, polite manner.


Members are the people who stay and really show interest in bonsai. They are never treated in a rude way.

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Last edit: Post by Auk.

What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44467

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I think maybe you need to ‘go to great lengths to suggest to the new user how to use the forum’ and avoid asking any questions more than once

Check the first link you get when you click "new topic"
You think we have not thought about that?
But people sjhould be willing to read, and help. Why is it that a new person is allowed to be insullted when told something is not a bonsai. Yet people who have helped dozens of people are not supposed to tell people they do not have bonsai, and should read the forum guidelines? Sorry, but that is plenty of arrogant too.

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44472

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At the end of the day...if someone is really interested in doing Bonsai... it wont matter if there are some disparaging comments shared. If at all.. those harsh comments, help people know what they are up against and if they have the patients to go through what it takes to get to a good/acceptable bonsai.

I had a fair amount of disparaging comments when i started out here, but it only pushed me to go and develop better understanding and educate myself. So i am actually happy i had those arguments and disagreements and certainly some heated debates. But it encouraged me to better my understanding...even if the motivations were misguided and prove someone else wrong. Eventually, i learned and still continue to do...and it wont bother me too much if someone has a few harsh things to say to me...maybe they have a point afterall.

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44486

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I understand many new enthusiasts may be confused as to what a Bonsai (‘Planted in a container’) is. I would like to think that during their confusion and need for knowledge, a forum would endeavour to assist and guide members in a ‘Zen’ like, polite manner.


Members are the people who stay and really show interest in bonsai. They are never treated in a rude way.


One of the common problems with forums like this is that the longer-term users can get a bit snobby about people only showing an interest in a hobby. Isn't the point to encourage people to join the movement? Rather than just assuming they aren't genuinely interested just because they are new? If you tell everyone, "just keep asking until we respect your devotion to the forums", aren't you possibly running off people who truly would love to learn to grow a proper bonsai?

I came here originally looking for advice and have almost come to the place of deciding that there are too many people here who get condescending because I ask questions that annoy them. Yes, I've found some helpful tips but I am also beginning to feel like this is kind of a closed group... only for those more experienced than I am.

I would like to make one general comment. Please read a person's post carefully to see if they are asking a question that may not be covered in the link you are recommending. I see people getting frustrated because people don't actually read their posts for the real question.
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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44501

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I came here originally looking for advice and have almost come to the place of deciding that there are too many people here who get condescending because I ask questions that annoy them. Yes, I've found some helpful tips but I am also beginning to feel like this is kind of a closed group... only for those more experienced than I am.


Would you care to substantiate that claim? Because I see 2 threads that you started, and on both you got clear and to the point answers.
The annoying situation you may have encountered that you started a discussion whether or not people should post a link as an answer, and not in a very nice way either. That naturally led to some unpleasentries.

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44513

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One of the common problems with forums like this is that the longer-term users can get a bit snobby


And the common problem I found is that people calling other people snobby are usually rather full of theirselves.

about people only showing an interest in a hobby


"I planted bonsai seed of I do not know what species in the wrong season and I am keeping them indoors as they are my lovely little puppies that need love and care and pampering. They are calle Daisy and Bonnie (Bonnie... from bonsai. Am I not hilarious?). I have given them lots of food as they did not seem to do well but it is getting worse so I have repotted them three times and I have added lava rocks on top of the soil as I read bonsai need lava but they are still not looking good. When can I start pruning them?"

is not exactly showing an interest in the art of bonsai.

> Rather than just assuming they aren't genuinely interested just because they are new?

I know they are not genuinely interested if they do not have the foggiest idea about what a bonsai is, never have seen one, have not done ANY research on how to grow them and even 'never have grown anything', 'do not have a green thumb', 'cannot keep a plant alive' (I am NOT making this up, this was really on this forum).


> aren't you possibly running off people who truly
> would love to learn to grow a proper bonsai?

People who truly want to learn how to grow a proper bonsai will try and understand why their seedling is not a bonsai.

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44517

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People who truly want to learn how to grow a proper bonsai will try and understand why their seedling is not a bonsai.


If only this were true.

I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the US kids don't learn the basic skills related to research and finding things out that were part of education years ago. The educational system spoon feeds and the kids never figure out how to think just a little.

We had a bookshelf with an old encyclopedia we researched with and today they have a cell phone connected to Wikipedia and the entire internet but they don't know how to use it. So, it never occurs to them to look up bonsai care sheets or to look at the how to links on this website.

This is not a problem Bonsai Empire will solve, but it may explain the problems and frustrations we are dealing with. Maybe the best thing is ignore them and let them go away. Is that overly elitist? The educator in me wants to educate but I think it is fair to expect a certain level of basic skills.

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What is Bonsai 5 years 6 months ago #44521

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Is that overly elitist? The educator in me wants to educate but I think it is fair to expect a certain level of basic skills.


Exactly.
I teach Digital Technology and Fashion Photography at some Universities, and clearly fewer and fewer students want really to think, research and learn. What they want is a magical formula to make fast money and be famous on YouTube.
I have authored eight technical and conceptual books; but my editor told me last year they would not make a new edition of any of them because "nobody buy books anymore".
This seems to be the main problem; a lousy 3 minutes video on youtube about "bonzai", full of errors, by an unknown but enthusiastic "expert" is all most people need to be on board.
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