Tropfrog wrote: There are only one question in the initial post. What would you do? Lets get back to that one.

well if this tree were mine. first i would take care of the first set of branches intersecting which could potentially give you inverse taper in the future. i would also let the tree grow a few years to thicken up the trunk. if you plan on keeping the tree of this size i would also work on getting the tree to back bud so you have foliage closer to the trunk. if your aiming to keep the trunk that thin maybe consider a literati style but like mentioned before the needles do seem a little large for the size of the tree. thats what i would consider doing.

leatherback wrote: Time for you to flip through the thread and look who you are telling off. You are digging yourself a big mess if you continue your circles.

Also, unless you agreed with Auk that he will not post in this thread i have no idea why you think you agreed on that.

Finally, it is a forum. People respond. Deal with it. I hope you realize the negativity you het is not because of the trees you posy but because of a bad attitude.

I am so sorry. What more can I say?

Auk told me he shouldnt post and I agreed. It was not really a big issue for me.

I cannot stop anyone from posting. I can just comunicate my whish about it. In this case it was not even me that made the suggestion.

I am truly sorry if that came out as bad attitude. That is just the thing I am trying too keep out of this thread, as I feel that there are a little too much of it on this forum.

So, this thread is already of track. Do anyone think it is possible to get back on track?

Br
Magnus

crent89 wrote:

Tropfrog wrote: There are only one question in the initial post. What would you do? Lets get back to that one.

well if this tree were mine. first i would take care of the first set of branches intersecting which could potentially give you inverse taper in the future. i would also let the tree grow a few years to thicken up the trunk. if you plan on keeping the tree of this size i would also work on getting the tree to back bud so you have foliage closer to the trunk. if your aiming to keep the trunk that thin maybe consider a literati style but like mentioned before the needles do seem a little large for the size of the tree. thats what i would consider doing.

I totally dig that. Just as I was giving up in the dark, the sun raised. Thank you.

My research gave me this:

"However, unlike Japanese Black Pines, Mugo pines backbud from where old needles remain on a branch not where they have been removed (plucked). So, whereas Japanese Black Pines are needle plucked to prompt back budding, the older needles of a mugo are kept in areas where backbudding is required."

www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATMugo%20Pines%20Indepth%20page2.html

So naturally I took that as I screwed up 2 years ago. I learned the lesson and moved on.

But you mean that it can backbudd further in where I already removed the needles? If that is true I will have more faith in this tree.

Br
Magnus

Tropfrog wrote: Auk told me that he shouldnt post because he didnt have anything to say that are not negative

Nope. Wasn't me. I only posted once in this thread about miniature trees vs. bonsai.

So we agreed on it. And that was it.

We agreed no such thing. Nor did the person who actually said that he wouldn't respond as you did not want to accept negative feedback.

Auk wrote:

Tropfrog wrote: Auk told me that he shouldnt post because he didnt have anything to say that are not negative

Nope. Wasn't me. I only posted once in this thread about miniature trees vs. bonsai.

So we agreed on it. And that was it.

We agreed no such thing. Nor did the person who actually said that he wouldn't respond as you did not want to accept negative feedback.

OH! uhm. Oops! You are totally right. I dont know how I came to mix up People like that. I Wonder how many Times I will need to excuse myself in this thread. But here comes Another one. Auk, I am so sorry for mixing you up with Lb. What would your feedback be to the original question?

LB: you did perfectly fine despite thinking your feedback would be thought as negative. It didnt.

Br
Magnus

So, back on topic, right?

I totally agree that the tree needs a thicker trunk. Just not in the 1/12 range. My options is clear. Dig it into the ground, keep sacrificial branch or just wait a long time for it to thicken in the pot. Digging down is not an option for me. I have enough materials in my garden and cannot fit anymore without ruin the estetics of the garden. Then it is good that I left the thick branch in the back. That is good for sacrifice, right??

The needles is too long, totally agreed. However, I dont understand why this is a problem at this point. Wouldn't that just be expected on a plant tree years from nurcery?

This years growth has smaller needles than the others. I would expect this to continue as ramification is built. Right or wrong?

Br
Magnus

Auk wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:
Yes, I am aiming at a miniature old natural tree.
That is why I say that I am aiming a miniature natural tree, not a bonsai.

So you're growing miniature trees, that look like old natural trees, that are in bonsai pots, but that are not bonsai.

Looks like you're afraid what you grow will not be considered bonsai, so you make up your own definitions, and there will be no way you can fail, as it will all be according to your own rules.

I do try to grow bonsai. I do fail. All that means is that I have to try better.

Actually, they are not in bonsai pots.

i am not afraid of anything. But I am not a fan of rules. So no, I am not making up any rules, just as nature dont make up rules.

What do you do with you trees that have "failed"? The trees that didn't come to look as you expected?

What I find quite funny is that it seems to be ok when a beginner shows up in the forum to tell Them that it is not a bonsai, that they are not growing bonsai or even cannot be considered to be beginners in bonsai. Here I am, a beginner claming excactly that. And that is The big controversy. Quite funny really.

I have a dog that has never been to a show. But it is still a dog. I have 12 beautiful koi that has never been to a show but they are still kois. And now I have several trees that will never be to a show. I just dont like the concept of beauty competitions, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But what I seen on the bonsai shows, I have been to is in my eyes an exeggeration of old trees.

We have been into the thickens of the trunk, exeggerated. But there are also the fork branches. Old natural trees gets fewer and fewer fork branches naturally, but they never loose al of Them. A tree without fork branches is exeggerated in my eye. Also for ramification. An old natural tree has more ramification than a young. But the trees I have seen in shows has far too tight and much ramification. That is in my view exeggerated. If an artist draw paintings in the same way bonsai is practiced. People would call that carricatures.

Nothing wrong with carricatures, People that draw Them or People that like Them, bonsai show trees or People that do Them or like Them. Everything is perfectly ok. It is just that I dont particular like the rules that are to be used on bonsai or the sometimes snobbiness around it. I hope that you are all fine with that. I dont really see any controversy in that.

The technice and The craft around the bonsai however are much useful for me. You, all that takes time to respond on my tree are much appreciated. I dont have any Hard feelings because we have different tastes and I from the bottom of my heart hope and think that there are no Hard feelings comming back. You all are very valuable persons and The experience and knowledge is deeply respected from my side.

Br
Magnus

If you do not like bonsai, why are are you on a bonsai forum? I am confused.

I mean every time someone makes a suggestion as to techniqjlue or development you the them off that you do not want to create any of the things that make bonsai a bonsai. If you want to just have bushes in pots that you trim, fine. But why then post on a bonsai forum? A goldfish is a fish. But not a koi.

I am asking the same question as Leatherback.
YOu do not want a bonsai, but you ask bonsai people what would they do.
They would make a bonsai.
YOu want something else - but you are not sure what you want.
This whole doesn´t make sense to me and I will pass on participating in all your future posts, in fact won´t even read them.
It seems to be a waste of time to me.
No offence intended.
I am just being honest, so you know
Good luck.

leatherback wrote: If you do not like bonsai, why are are you on a bonsai forum? I am confused.

I mean every time someone makes a suggestion as to techniqjlue or development you the them off that you do not want to create any of the things that make bonsai a bonsai. If you want to just have bushes in pots that you trim, fine. But why then post on a bonsai forum? A goldfish is a fish. But not a koi.

I do think I have explained that in my last post. I am here because I value your experience and knowledge in the craft involved. Even thou we dont see the same goal, the road is still the same.

Yes, a goldfish is not a koi, just as my tree is not a bonsai. Totally agreed.

Br
Magnus